Featuring two of the most important pillars of the indie dance community, Bugged Out mainstay and Phantasy boss Erol Alkan took a rare hour out of his crazy schedule to chat with one of the UK’s most sought after studio producers Flood. Swapping stories about being in the studio with Depeche Mode and U2 as well as reminiscing about working on the legendary album The Joshua Tree (an album that’s sold over 25million copies), Flood and Erol discuss how far music has travelled from the 80s to the present day.
Featuring two of the most important pillars of the indie dance community, Bugged Out mainstay and Phantasy boss Erol Alkan took a rare hour out of his crazy schedule to chat with one of the UK’s most sought after studio producers Flood. Swapping stories about being in the studio with Depeche Mode and U2 as well as reminiscing about working on the legendary album The Joshua Tree (an album that’s sold over 25million copies), Flood and Erol discuss how far music has travelled from the 80s to the present day.
RALPH: 0:00
Welcome to a little more conversation Ralph Moore. Get closer to the biggest names in electronic music. In this episode, Ralph gets closer to the pioneering DJ producer Erol Alkan and its musical mentor flood.
RALPH: 0:23
Welcome to the second episode off a little moore conversation. I'm delighted to say that for our second podcast, I'm joined by legendary producer Flood To my right, and Erol Alkan to my left. Hello. I referred to you as a trash impresario outside, but I mean, that's just the beginning of the story, Really. I think the point of today is to get a sense of why you two are friends and collaborators and co-conspirators, I imagine at some point, but mainly just to have a great conversation about music about where things were going, what matters to you and, really, just to get a sense off a little more conversation at this time in the morning on a Monday morning. And my goodness, how many coffee have we had now, two? The most obvious question to start with has got to be this one. How did you guys meet?
EROL: 1:14
I think I remember. This is because you were working with the friends soulwax.
FLOOD: 1:19
That's a right. I think tt was 2 2003 2003. Yeah.
EROL: 1:24
And so I remember him first when they said that they were working with you was a bit of a Wow! Moment. And then ah said yeah come by the studio, and I can't tell which one it was. Must have been your old one Yeah. Your old one is like a lockup.
FLOOD: 1:39
Yeah, that's right.
EROL: 1:40
Being coming into there. And it was very remember it being very laid back, which was a very kind of erm. It was a really is really impressive things to kind of see in that sense just how kind of laid back it was because I think I might have had a bit of a mental image in my head as to what it could possibly be like, You know, that sense And I just remember being really relaxed, and that was that was very nice. Very good.
FLOOD: 2:03
It was relaxed on the outside. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's I mean, that's one of the jobs of producer To maintain calmness at all times. I remember you walking in the door because your reputation preceded you. It was fascinating because There are lots of people coming in and out on those sessions. I mean, David in tow. Steph, they've got so many friends. But there was an instance chemistry, which is really fascinating because that's the way we do our job. You know, it's not just about the music, it's about how you get on with the people. So from those dim, dark days of, you know 15 16 years ago, we've kept this friendship. That's been, you know, it's just it feels totally easy and natural, like, you know, some of the other people there I haven't seen since those times, you know, it's vital for doing the job that you have a chemistry with people. So you know, we've moved into similar fields now,
EROL: 3:13
definitely. But I think if it was a really cool for me when I start work with bands, More as well built to kind of just if I had any kind of questions or anything in that sense, you know, I found for to be a very natural person, too. To ask these things because a lot off the answers that were come back, we're the ones that I kind of that I wanted to hear almost, you know, just about how relaxed things should be and that those things which I think she, I think, have really been super helpful. And hopefully when people ask me similar things as well, I'm able to kind of carry that fruit, because I do, you know, sincerely agree with a lot off. You know, the methods and And approaches and stuff like that and kind of what's important, really, and kind of what isn't. And I don't think that a lot of information that we're kind of given and you know what we kind of see and read. And I think how people kind of present themselves in similar kind of rolls, a kind of slightly misaligned in away, Certainly with what I feel is kind of true.
FLOOD: 4:20
I mean, what is a producer? What do they do?
EROL: 4:23
Well, this is an interesting thing, actually, because the one thing I was gonna ask you in this sense wasn't what is a producer? But one thing that I really like about what flood has done is the kind of quote unquote kind of credit in that sense of as to what it is because you've done lots of things that are either producer or co producer or engineer or mix or whatever. And the one thing that I really like that is, that is, it seems slightly, even though you know it's 100% in how confident you are in what you're doing. But the kind of role is kind of shapeless aside. You're kind of in a room. You kind of guiding a ship. You're working of ideas. Bringing ideas may be batting ideas into the long grass if they're not Whatever you know, like you're there and you're a filter and you're a commentator, whatever. But it's, you know, whatever role that that's in, you know, if on the back of a record it says you are the producer, you're the co producer, or the engineer, Whatever, like it's so refreshing to kind of see that rather than it being kind of very ego driven thing, which I think a lot of because you kind of get into things where you see certain producers doing things and, you know, you know, it's kind of like the engineers are doing most of it. All this, especially in dance music terms, which we won't even go anywhere near I think has kind of a lot of ghosts produces, goes writers, ghost whatevers. But I think it's just so inspiring for it to be in that sense of You're just in there, you're in there doing what you're doing and this's the result of the it such because sometimes I mean, you know, you're just all part of a team and I think that Is that the super important thinking that
FLOOD: 6:13
absolutely I mean, there was one record by Polly Harvey where it's just got made by Polly, Flood and Head and you know, we all had our roles. But I think that sums up the way that I feel making music should be, Yeah, I mean, a lot of it comes from training as an engineer, So you have to sit in studios listening to stuff that you're thinking. Why are we here? What are we doing? But you learn patience and you learn to observe and Humility is, I think, a vital part. Yeah, so that you'll never, never seemed to be this sort of the big you know, impresario or somebody who's like bossing the show.
RALPH: 6:56
Yeah, for listeners who are coming to this saying? Tell me a little bit more about these two. I'm going to jump in and say, Would it be fair to say that the Joshua Tree was a big engineering learning experience for you? Tell me about that experience particularly,
FLOOD: 7:12
Yeah. I mean, Joshua Tree was absolutely pivotal for me personally, for three reasons. Reason Number one was I've been an engineer for five years. Up until that point, doing a few co productions, but predominantly an engineer on one of the things I was doing a lot off was high energy music. I was one of the back room boys, so you're used to being a very regimented style of engineering, you know, he comes for session players in mourning, right record there. There were going to do a mix on that track now and then maybe do some vocals on something else. And that was your days. Very regimented. Go to work with on Joshua Tree with Eno and Lanois. Everything that I knew was torn up in the rule book. You know, we want microphones in the control room so that at any time, we can just join in, Do a bit of singing. I don't think I've ever recorded a vocal in the control room. Well, it's no problem just sticking the old mic down the back. Okay, Yeah, I'll do that. Well, let's have some monitors at the back of the control room just so we can hear what's going on. But well surely there's going to spill into the mic for oh Don't worry about that. Just from day one, everything was changed. Let's just record the band in a room. You can do whatever you like, whatever you like. Oh that sounds pretty good here. Yet the band are going way really like the sound of the ambience. And Eno goes Yeah, sounds pretty good. Let's just get rid of all the close mikes. Wipe them. Oh, you sure about this guy? So everything changed brilliantly. I mean, it's just changed my whole philosophy on everything. Number two was just the idea of a big, big big band actually wanting the same things as every other band. They're no different, no different!
RALPH: 9:14
meaning?
FLOOD: 9:16
Well, you sort of have these expectations that people are going to, you know, the bigger they get going to have more more more more but they just wanted to be standing like a normal band in a room without too much fuss. There was no loads of gear and it was just honest and very down to earth. And it was really refreshing to see that. And yet at the same time have this eye on the huge global stage. You know, I used to joke with Bono about, you know, don't you ever want to play in a small club? I mean, really, do you want to be waving the flag around? And he was brilliant, you know, He just said, We love and we're made for the big stage and you know fair enough.
EROL: 10:06
Now, the album that I listened to the most by U2. I wonder if you can guess to Roper. Actually, that's the second Artem baby. Correct. Now I was thinking about this yesterday. I don't know why that is, but a It's really stood the test of time and b I think there are songs on that that it better than pretty much any songs that they made before or since, For example, even better than the real thing. Yeah, it's great. What was your experience like with that record.
FLOOD: 10:38
The thing that was again amazing about that record was they came in with a clear agenda. They wanted to break the mould. They did not want to sound like U2 of rattle and harm and Joshua Tree. They wanted to be totally different. So the three first 3 3.5 months were very hard. Were camped out in Berlin and you know it. It was what you imagine it to be a grey winter and we're staying in the East Berlin Hotel, and it's all very hard work. Very nothing was coming and out of nowhere, literally out of nowhere one day of trying out different ideas to get one together. And I think Dan Lanouir had the idea of sticking two ideas of bridge chords together and sticking them at the end of the third cycle. No one's going in play, and honestly, it was like they started playing it and everybody went, Oh, it's just like amazing did four takes. I think it's four takes on the 4th 1 Is it? And most of the vocals, lyrics and everything were there on the floor on People go Oh This is amazing. You know, it's like come from nowhere and I remember me and Brian, which is going meh classic song. But I mean its a bit average. And so we were the irritants all the time, pushing and pushing and pushing through particularly Brian. And that's gives the song this underlying debt that you don't realise so that when it comes to the final mix well, there were no computers in those days, so we're doing it all, you know, three lots of people on hands on deck. And, we finished the mix final mix and Bono was going sounds great, and we're all waiting. But... because I'm not sure about one bit of the vocal, I go Okay, well, what if we do? And he said, Well, I just want to sort of sort out the vocal. So now fast forward to a day later. It's almost a completely new vocal and were there mixing again. And the tension is so. You know, we've been doing this for about four days. And is a new vocal on the whole track is it's just a totally different feel getting close and everybody's moving stuff on the desk but very slowly and gradually, and then suddenly goes. I've got this idea for a guitar line at the edge, so we're on the mix and we're actually in the studio space while Steve, Lily White and somebody else one of the engineers is mixing, I think, even better than real thing. And so we're fine by the seat of our pants. And I went, I've got no tracks on the multi-track so I can't off. We're gonna have to do it live. So the guitar that comes in at the end of one only exists on the final mix of literally were all mixing it. And Edge at the back of the studio, and it comes to you and and he plays it live. And then we put it down and we all went. That's it. Now that's what gives the song that extra dimension, that level of human interaction and everybody is flying by the seat of the pants on at the end of it. Even the great doubter go just yeah, that's brilliance on brilliant brilliance on and its caught, a recording of a place in time of everybody's emotions. Everybody's feelings of the zeitgeist. Everything about that song?
EROL: 14:42
Yeah, that's a hard story to follow. Only just begun. Now just for real. What is it? I think you might have told me back then. Like a long, long time ago. Even you might have even been When I first came to your studio about the vocal going down on one and it was just the Nessen 58. So I just slouched on the couch is the 1st 1 or the 2nd 1 But I've been one that's going down life take or when he redid it,
FLOOD: 15:09
the vocal that would have been every time I think of all the people I've worked with in the last sort of rural 30 odd years, I'd say 90% of the lead vocals of everybody as being a beater Shore as sm 58.
RALPH: 15:27
Quick question for both of you. Do you have to like the bands and the people that you're working with?
EROL: 15:33
Absolutely. Yeah, You gonna I couldn't imagine how you could be honest. Is that the right word? E true? I mean, just you and you gotta have belief. Really? And you gotta You gotta You gotta You gotta believe that that they believe what they're doing and all those kind of things. But, I mean, I've never said this in public, but I have had, you know, one or two situations. I've ended up in things where halfway through, I've kind of I've kind of maybe doubted it it, you know, in the sense that.
FLOOD: 16:09
Thats part and parcel of the learning curve
EROL: 16:10
Yeah, you know, you learn so much from that
FLOOD: 16:12
Absolutely, you you learn if somebody who, you know you're feeling in a work situation and there's somebody is really getting on your nerves, you like, they just have to walk in the room and you grrr. And then that person says something and you go, Oh, my God, that is stroke of genius. And you have to just put all your preconceptions or your notions to one side and go. Great idea. Let's go. And it teaches you so much about human beings andabout the way you interact. That's what I was saying about chemistry. You walk in the room and there's an instant chemistry, you know. And what's that like 15 years ago? And here we are
EROL: 16:53
Yes, and that's why I think the pairing of of certain artists and producers usually you know you can't. It's not like trump cards, really. In that sense, where producers a certain kind of score or artist has a certain score, it's that fusion is that you know it is that impact fusion has. I think that can and the result of it is, is whatever music is made because of it. Really? So it really is about that really chemistry.
RALPH: 17:21
Now before we started, we were talking about whether people changed within bands. Now you work with U2 over quite a long period of time. And also Depeche. You know, when you start with some of those guys that were in their twenties and now they're in their forties and fifties, let's talk a little bit about that. Like obviously, the dynamics change when people grow up, have families. How have you found that experience with bands like U2 and Depeche
FLOOD: 17:45
U2 and Depeche, We're very much peers, so it's it's You have to look at oneself, you know? Have you changed? I mean myself and Erol talk about like this quite a lot. We've both got families. So in this day and age, the idea that you can be sort of a selfish bloke, generally in the studio, working 15 hours a day and you don't really care about anybody else has changed. You can't be like that. You have to be aware of your outside. I mean, I know my wife. If she ever hears this will probably look at me as though I've. But you have to be aware we were talking about this this morning. I've I've done two school runs. I'm sure Erol made someone and, um, we were coming here talking about schools, you know, and you've got to be aware of this. And that's the way that people change. You know? I mean, obviously dynamics and situations, but, I mean, if you say, stay the same, I mean, who do you know who stayed the same? I mean, I'm sure if you two you
RALPH: 18:56
worked with the Charlatans which one of my favourite songs is weirdo by the Charlatans it takes me back to college days. It takes me back to you know,
EROL: 19:06
You know I did a re edit of that?
RALPH: 19:07
What's that?
EROL: 19:08
I did a re edit of that.
RALPH: 19:08
Did you? Did you? Did you?
EROL: 19:11
Yeah. When we used to play at trash but did this kind of a really long version off the intro chopped up loads that stuff kind of cut it out. You will be coming in and out Stuff on and I remember how it came about but Tim, but end up he think he asked me for it. He heard about it and sent it to him. And yeah, he he plays out.
RALPH: 19:30
Its the intro that grabs you straight away. But the point of the question, I think, is these These records which really do transport you to a certain place which you know, violated does. And Joshua Tree does weirdo like I said, takes me back to college days. It's harder now for albums and, everything around surrounding albums to have that cultural longevity now because everything moves so much quicker.
FLOOD: 19:58
I think you just need to look at both mine and Erol's face to sort of question that one.
RALPH: 20:04
Go ahead
FLOOD: 20:06
to say that Well, I had to be diplomat if I believed that I would be sitting here excellent. And I'm sure that the look on your face in the same thing if we're going to go do a job and it is a job might be the greatest job in the world. But it still is a job. Exactly as Erol said You can't sit in there and just get me. Yeah, well, compromise that. Oh, yeah. Oh, you're bosh that one out. I mean, everything has to be passionate. It's about emotions. Emotional response on DH. To say that something you make something will be part of the making of something that maybe just gets thrown away I wouldn't be doing. I fight every single day for people to realise that it's such a valuable commodity. It doesn't matter if you do something that you think is appalling. I've had it three or four times, something that I've done that I really didn't like. For whatever reason, somebody's come back to me three or four years later go. That has changed my life. You really that was terrible But now that changed my life. So that's what you're dealing with. And I think now, actually, music is becoming much more relevant. Yeah, it's becoming more politicised and people are just going No, we're not going to do what you expect. We're going to do what we want. I guess
RALPH: 21:35
my point was it's harder for an album to stay as an album and be held with the sort of same regard. That doesn't mean it can't happen. For example, Smashing Pumpkins had a new record out before Christmas. It came and went within two weeks, and I love that band. So I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying. The way that everything is grabbed and disseminated now is I guess we're the point. We agree is is different.
FLOOD: 22:00
It is different. But I mean, if you're going to play the game, do you compromise to non compromise or do you non Compromise to compromise? And that's the thing. You are making music that is going to be bought not sold on. That's the massive difference. So you've got to go into the studio believing this is going to be the greatest thing ever. And if somebody says Well, I will just cut corners here. No, Dont come in my studio, we're here and We're going to make the purest form of art. It's going to be so successful because it is 110% believed in what everybody in that room,
EROL: 22:47
that's ah, completely graphic you got. You just gotta keep that mentality that focus going all the way through just to make sure people realise that what they were doing. I really worry if if that kind of focus is lost amongst the bands that you try to make sure you just remind people of what they're doing, because you only have that window to do it and, you know, And if you kind of miss that slot.
RALPH: 23:08
Then so I guess the main change really, And we talked about this before we started, was you. The keyword is tactile, so if you want to record to live and breathe and have a relevant like it does scare me that records do come and go within a matter of weeks. So the way to get around that stuff. So Bjork, for example, has just reissued her catalogue on different coloured cassette. You mentioned that your daughter is. I'm
FLOOD: 23:33
trying to encourage her to use cassettes as mixtape. She's she's got vinyl. She's doing well, so but it's that idea, not just tactile, but it's just not one sense or one finger. Unfortunately, the mouse, you know, denies the fact that you've got 10 fingers old fashioned mixing. You know, I'm not sitting here doing your air mixing, but it's, I think, an all body experience. It should, you know, overwhelm you not through volume, but just it means that much to you. So I'm working with a band right now who wanted to work on tape. So we're working on tape, which brilliant. You know, it's ah, everybody's dealing with things in a very different way because you gotta focus your using your ears. You can't be twittering around looking at the screen when it's like you're gonna listen.
RALPH: 24:29
Now, Errol, you run a very successful label phantasy. Would it be fair to say that vinyl is a very big part of that story?
EROL: 24:38
Yeah. I mean, every release that we have put it has been on vinyl. You know, I still buy vinyl nearly every week. Even though I went through that whole period of no, you know, vinyl sales kind of going down and down and down and down, down from way start in 2007. That was when you could still sell. You know, you'd sell 2000 copies of something you know, which now is You're like, Yeah, So he kind of. But we've managed to kind of maintain or retain something, I think, because at least, I suppose. I like to think that what fantasy stands for in the kind of scheme of Elektronik alternative leaning electronic music, I suppose, is people want something tangible, you know. So we've always made made efforts with sleeves and, you know, run out grooves and stuff like that, you know, to kind of connect with people. I mean, that's what's always connected with me. I was always kind of fanatical about those things. So So, yeah, I do feel Final is important. But I do feel that if if and when fantasy decides to branch out into different areas of electric music, there's no reason why it cannot focus solely on on a digital medium if that's what that would work for the music as such. So I don't think vinyl should be a kind of an albatross, because it can. It does cost a lot of money at a Macon. You know, you're kind of relying on orders of a moving parts in order for it to be a success. So, you know, I think that it's whatever whatever feels like it's gonna be the best thing the artists for the music, and we will do. But ultimately, you know, I like to pull something off the shelf. I like to kind of read something on the tube home and all those kind of things.
FLOOD: 26:17
Something now we're at the crossroads of there's old codgers like me who know the old school. And there's people like you who know the new school. And it's about knowing both disciplines and the next generation will be able to have a new journey, like using both, like you talking about vinyl, But it could be just a cz much digital. Yeah, because there's a lot of people now who I think are breaking through using computers and totally using them creatively.
EROL: 26:50
Yeah, I agree. I mean, it goes back to what I've always felt, Really. You know, I've never really been totally convinced that one medium is worth more than another Another all I have absolutely coming out from the speaker. You know, I have some of my favourite deejay sets have come listening to somebody who I don't know, playing like rusty. Seven inches on a really bad PA in a back room of a pub, but they're playing records that made me go. What is this record or, you know, gone? Ever find out? You know, I felt I've discovered something. You learn something So I'm not particularly fussed or care much for the current trend of DJs feeling that they're above other DJs because they play vinyl and they have weights on their record and they have every doesn't matter to me, either, because that's not more than a kid who's got coming off his laptop, plugged at the line out. If what they're doing is genuinely inspiring, you know, so the medium doesn't matter. I think we're constantly evolving towards what DJing can be, you know, culturally contextually. You know how people have kind of bringing different things together and presenting them in a really inspired way. I mean, that's what I've always cared for so much. And so I mean, the reason I stopped playing vinyl in clubs was because people weren't setting the decks up properly. It came to a point with CD players are much louder than the vinyl players. You go to a festival on DH, you play a piece of vinyl or you get is a load of sub hum because they weren't set up properly. So I I decide that to digitise all my vinyl to CDs and take them out because then I knew the line level was gonna be much better. Which is why I made that digital leap. But back in God, I remember when that waas was a long time ago thin, but that obviously, you know, people then say I don't play vinyl. So that's the reason why I don't play vinyl. So you don't want to? Yeah, I still love it. I still respect it, and I still see the value in it. But you kind of got to do what's gonna be the best thing for you in front of people and kind of music. You want a record that you believe in to sound as good as possible, you know? So you gotta find your way of doing that. Really?
RALPH: 28:57
Wow. We got deep there.
FLOOD: 28:58
Oh, yeah. We could go deeper if you want. Yeah, exactly.
EROL: 29:04
Can I ask a question?
FLOOD: 29:04
Yes, sure.
EROL: 29:05
Ive always wanted to say this. The bass sound on The Phantom by renegade Starwave. Was it two Juno's at once? I
FLOOD: 29:14
No no no no no
EROL: 29:16
Someone told me that that was Remember when I first heard that baseline. I thought it really got me immediately. Just from the first, Like, three seconds of hearing it for the first time. And I always wondered what it was on on and a friend of mine engineer, he he said to me, We got talking about phantom. This has to two Juno sixes in parallel.
FLOOD: 29:38
No, I cant remember what it was but it certainly wasn't that.
EROL: 29:44
Cause I thought it was odd, using two Juno sixes for that sound.
FLOOD: 29:49
I can't remember. In fact, I was listening to that album only the other day
EROL: 29:54
I always heard a similar massive similarity between actual song Renegade Cell isn't right with it with the acoustic title front and Wonderwall or
FLOOD: 30:04
I don't know, maybe maybe I mean renegade with just such great innovator.
EROL: 30:11
Yeah, I agree
FLOOD: 30:12
in that first album, I think. I mean, maybe I shouldn't be saying that we're sprinting past Time is apart from the vocals and drums on one track, Everything is a sample. Yeah, everything on that first album. Well, and, it just shows thie innovation and the creativity you can have by limitations
EROL: 30:33
Yeah I completely agree Yeah, those popular yourself records. Renegade Sound Wave. You know this there such a totally kinship in that way. You know, they got a similar kind of punk.
FLOOD: 30:46
Well, that's and there was there. Weren't that many people doing that style of music. I mean, there's those two. Ah, Jesus Jones. Ah, there's a couple of other bands, but they were all of the same ilk. Very much punk attitude very much. Don't give a damn about society. I mean, some things that were going on with renegade, just like a lively little. But it was really about making the music something that they all cared about mean making Phantom did that in a day. Andi. I remember they went off and broke in somewhere and did a warehouse party, and they were playing it just to check it out the following day, you know? And he was like, Come on, it's not bad, you know?
EROL: 31:31
Well, that's a record. He could still play today, and it just it's still embodies everything that I kind of felt from the first time round. The hearing it, you know, it hasn't aged a bit a tall
FLOOD: 31:41
when that guy's five vote will know.
EROL: 31:43
Yeah, it was amazing. It's got a clash sampling as well. Yeah, White riot? Yep.
EROL: 31:48
Are you ready for a big question? Now is the big question actually follows on very nicely. One of the things that Erol and I often chat about is the K L F We love. The KLF doesn't care on what the KLFdid was they had a series of number one records on kind of messed around with mainstream. You've worked with bands not only who had big successful on solid ground, but also within major labels. So, for example, island records would be one was part of the fun or the joy in what you're doing. Realising that you were shaking things up, messing around with the mainstream like zero p, for example. When nun came out, I thought, This is great, but how the hell have they got away with this song?
FLOOD: 32:27
I never once went oh we got to do this to break things up. All the bands I've worked with would have been This is what they wanted to do, and it just felt right. I mean, there were times, say, Nine inch nails doing ah, radio edit off head like a hole. And I remember the guy who is the head of the record company sitting in the back of the studio in New York. Just go. Could we have a little less distortion on the voice? And I'm going? No. We can have more because you're here getting must to do a radio edit because its massive in college radio. And they've just been editing the album version which has got loads more on so you're going to have loads more on. So that's where you have that decision. But the initial thing was just like, Cool, this's great. This is what I want to hear, you know. So maybe it was just a kindred spirit of those times, but I'm in most of the music. I mades always been like that. I mean, I've never tried to second guess,
RALPH: 33:31
but it's definitely not about ever taking a safe route, for example, is literally the opposite of that isn't it
FLOOD: 33:36
was a change as a person. How do you grow? You've got to challenge yourself. Otherwise, I mean, as one gets older, you obviously this certain areas that can become more conservative in your life. But you've got to challenge yourself and the people around you a challenging in their own ways. I mean, working with a bunch of 21, 22 year olds who have just thrown out the rule book on about four or five things. Brilliant. Bring it on One question I wanted to ask you Erol like your background. I mean, I feel maybe on not totally right comes from dance and you 're more doing sort of rock productions now. I mean, you still have like, you know, you still D J at the same time and the way that that for me, feels representative of the new way that music is going like there feels like there's a sea of change and people like you. I think you are at the forefront of it because you, can balance so many different parts into one.
EROL: 34:41
It's weird you said it because through the eighties, apart from you know, like in the pop music that I liked off the day than getting in to heavy metal, then hip hop and then acid house in 89 listening to rave music on the radio on pirate radio, then getting into bands in 1990 thing that fusion of scene you know none of the bands of the day like roses and the Mondays and stuff of and what What pulled me into guitar music then and always being in to guitar music and then staying a night club trash, which was predominately guitar music and then playing with electronic music around 99 2000 because I was getting excited by, you know, the electronic records off era. But having said that, going back a little bit to like 1990 especially, you know, hearing a few records that he had made in in, you know, like Phantom which we spoke that and also, you know, if he's that popular established to me, I could hear both sides in. And those are the things that I've always kind of draw me to What ideas? Because I can hear a sensibility off, and maybe I can't quite put my finger on what it is. But is this the essence of kind of being aware of alternative cultural and alternative music and rock music? And on as well is using dance music as a medium. But my background is, for me has always been a kind of mix of both, Really. I mean, I'm a fan of bands of a fan of it's never really mattered to me what music has been made on. You know what what instruments is made on. So
FLOOD: 36:22
do you find that you're quiet on your own in having all that balance of different disciplines when you're working with people now
EROL: 36:31
it's sometimes maybe the expectation that someone has to know what you're going to bring. Two somethings. I remember having having that from when I started work with Mystery Jets, for instance. They were, you know, people just like you. I mean, that was a year, and I've been given DJ of the year by mixmag, you know, so of a sudden I'm kind of like, you know, the scene as a dj, let within dance music room. Then I'm working
FLOOD: 36:55
with mystery jets ,Love it, keep them guessing!
EROL: 37:02
know, there was all this thing, but I kind of felt at that point, was like, kind of, you know, I love what I'm doing that I really enjoyed it. But I also want to be different, you know? And then I you know, I want to kind of stretch myself a little bit. I want to you know I want to stay true to what I believe in as well, you know, in that sense. But remember what with ride I think people were a little bit concerned that maybe I was going to take them into some kind of house music direction, which
FLOOD: 37:28
they don't know, that it's terrible, the preconceptions people have. You know quite often if I'm involved in something, ah no Captain Weird is involved. But they missed the point. The most important thing is the song,
EROL: 37:44
absolutely that absolutely what I always believe in And, you know, even for me, it's kind if theirs demos. I need to kind of hear them and Believe absolutely. This is the right thing, not just for me to be involved, but also based on if it's the right thing for a band to be making a record almost in that, that if You know what? The reasons for doing this in that sense So, yeah, I do think there's always kind of slight, you know. I suppose it pretty comes from fanbases as to how they view a band is, and if you are in line with it, and usually they can, I suppose that that they gage a producer quote unquote that they're worth by the kind of success that they have had, you know, in the upcoming stages to that. Really?
FLOOD: 38:30
Do you find that the bands that you're working with now, where were at in 2019 starting to have A different way of thinking?
EROL: 38:39
Yeah, I think so. I think I've beenreally lucky also with the ones that I have worked with in being very open minded. I remember even when the mystery jets they they said to me at one point in one session that I wanted to make a record that sounded like switch. I dont know if you probably know who Switch is but you know, very, very, like so super weird and wild electronic music. And you're kind of like reading into that I think is what they mean by that light. And then it's kind of kind of kind of visualise what they mean by what they feel is in their music in that sense and then kind of un winding that thing, trying to help them realise that. And I don't know, I think we kind of did some things that that satisfied that in a sense. Yeah, I think the answer is yes, I think yes.
FLOOD: 39:24
I mean, I'm feeling that a lot of the bands that coming through now that I'm working with, if some of them don't have deals so that you actually work with you and then they get a deal, Yeah, so it's a bit more like the punk days. I'm old enough to remember that where it's not being driven by the labels. Yes, because the bands want to do something that means something to them, and they don't really care about other people. It's their surroundings that working with the band in the moment, the murder capital and theyre from Dublin. And there's the DC Fontaine's Ahs, another band from Don Dork, just mustard. And there there's this feeling that they're just doing it because they want to do it and the record companies, you know, I think it just brilliant are on the back foot. They're having to chase these bands. I think it's becoming More of the time. You know there's a restlessness.
EROL: 40:23
Yeah, the only debut album that I worked on when the band didn't have a deal was late appear fights Back channel, and that was one where you're kind of being corted a little bit, but by labels and stuff, it wasn't until we actually made some some of the record. And then the deal happened, which was really interesting, because everything else was like second albums, you know, which are when you kind of a second. So you learned as a real baptism of fire doing that. a couple second albums in a positive way. You learn so much from it and nobody coming to the first album. It's like You know you have. You have that freedom. You have nothing, especially the band. The first time they're in a studio as well. You know that sense of naivety as well, which I think rubs off on you really, positively not really exciting and encourages you to do things differently.
RALPH: 41:12
Final question. Hopefully an important big one to end on full. Though the Internet has obviously been the biggest game changer in the history of anything, the power of a song as a result of the Internet in the right environment with the right people has kind of created a feeling in a sense now that a song can be 1000 times bigger than it was on a cassette or on the vinyl in terms of the way that people film stuff now and, create a moment around that. In a way that's maybe the best thing about where songs have travelled to what do you think?
FLOOD: 41:51
yes. I mean, I don't think the Internet has changed things that much. It's maybe the way that people appreciate songs. That's different so that in the old days it was you just heard it. Yeah, but now you can look at it on YouTube and you know all the other stuff. There's Instagram or theres Facebook so you can go to gigs and you could win. The whole way of appreciating something is different, but actually the song there was a period of time where people were missing the point that by having all these different mediums to witness something meant that there was a lot of mediocrity, because anybody could make something that was witnessed by a lot of people. That's what I was saying about this thing about now it's starting to go back to the way that it was that you gotta have a great song that can be represented and loaded different ways. But if you don't have the great song there and you have to push hard to get that now, that's coming forward as the way through. So the great song loads of different ways of viewing it, witnessing it brilliant. That's why I think we're learning how to use digital on the Internet and take all these things in. But there are certain things from old school, the transcend everything.
RALPH: 43:20
Erol, what's your thoughts on this?
EROL: 43:22
Such a big, big question. I mean, I'm kind of offer some kind of gauging. Is that what I felt was big, you know, 20 years ago to what I feel is big now. And I look att some of this or hear some of this fruit like the eyes and ears fruit, the younger people home around nobly. My kids want how they pick up on things and and how they want to experience things. As well, you know how they what they gravitate towards to listen to something that they like or they want to hear and stuff like that. So I feel that we're you know, we're just in a kind of how big it can be. Potentially you know we're on a trajectory towards it, and that's how I get. Whatever's happening now is obviously just a stepping stone to it. You know, it feels like it's quite embryonic in that sense, as t how people way are definitely moving into a new place? Definitely, absolutely. There's no replacement. I mean, just to kind of if this summarises everything that we've spoken about it. But there is no replacement for a good song or that that recording and really that is you know, it's all there in the word is, is capturing a moment or an emotion is it's a snapshot off something that hits us, you know, way cannot. And we obviously experience up with the various takes of songs. You know what one has. That thing that we know is going to travel. That's going to be that thing that 20 years time, someone who wasn't even born when that record was made is gonna feel it on. It's gonna it's gonna affect them. It's gonna inspire them. You know, there's there's absolutely zero substitute for that as long as that's there, and we're always making sure that is there. Yeah, Then 20 years time, 30 years time. If you're gonna be experiencing a song being played out of your shoulder pad or something, I don't know. You know, it might be that it might be something in that way, but it will. It will be that thing that inspires and resonates. So to summarise. There is hope. There's always hope.
FLOOD: 45:16
Oh yeah, always Hope is always hope. The next generation. Yeah,
RALPH: 45:32
right. A couple of quick fire questions. Favourite movie. What's your favourite? Do you have one?
FLOOD: 45:32
Jungle book the original version.
RALPH: 45:32
Erol?.
EROL: 45:32
You know what? Actually Spinal Tap Because it comes on a lot in studios.
RALPH: 45:36
favourite song right now?
EROL: 45:39
E. I don't I don't know. It's really hard. It's really hard to fake. Favourite. Anything's at this stage is really, really hard, because when people say it's my favourite band, that's gone out the window. Now I think it's more a fan of moment. It's more of a fan of recordings, and things.
RALPH: 45:59
Should I reconstruct the question to. Could you give me an example of a song which you think is excellent?
FLOOD: 46:04
Sure about 100? No, no, no, no, no. It's our choice to have our favourites and they always change, and it would be a shame to actually name
EROL: 46:17
Nominate one. It's really hard. It's really hard in that way. I mean, I kind of like for me, it's it's about believing something in that safe here said. I believe it.
RALPH: 46:24
is final question. What's been the proudest moment in your career today?
FLOOD: 46:29
Every album I've finished the sense of satisfaction, and you've helped people achieve what they want to dream their dream there and you've been part of it. There's no it's not about you. It's about the collective and. Primarily it's about the band or the people that you're working with, that you've helped them achieve something that they hoped they could achieve and that that's why I say every album because you don't go into it thinking, Oh, well, yeah, I just boshed this one out as we said, It's so important.
EROL: 47:03
Yeah, I completely, really weird thing about me is that I kind of have this thing where as a DJ I'm on my own, You know, I travelled to all my games on my stage on my own. I kind of, you know, do whatever I remix people on my own, whatever. So that I kind of get a sense of achievement in doing that. But then when I went with bands, you kind of take a you know, you're part of a team and you're there to facilitate them, you know? So that's why I really you know, I have that thing that satisfies me in my life in that way. But what work with bands and getting thing, helping them realise it, getting it over the line, delivering something that people happy with and seeing that through is a major is a major achievement. That sense, but proudest moments are, I think, being able to get out of bed, with my self esteem in place.
EROL: 47:58
getting it. You know, you know, kind of being able to do, I think, is the thing that I'm you know, whatever is that leads you to that point where you're able to carry on doing it. I think that's that is the thing to be proud of in this,
RALPH: 48:11
And I suppose maybe the sense that the best is yet to come.
FLOOD: 48:14
I sincerely hope so at my age.
EROL: 48:15
My you gotta always you've got to you know, everything that you go into. You've got to have that same sense of, you know, confidence and naivety and all those kind of things that really keep you inspired, invigorated and and and and not, you know, you can't. You can't afford to be tired in every different way or cynical. I think going into this complacent you just can't go into in that way. You know, you really it's better you don't do it and pull people into that head space then, too. But I you know, I think I really I cannot have conversations with certain, even the producers or engineers or anything. If they go into one and it's a negative thing, it's sort of. I try not to, because I just can't see what's up with you. Can't you can't do that
FLOOD: 49:07
again. Is devaluing the music, which is, like, invaluable.
RALPH: 49:10
Yeah, exactly. Erol Flood. Thank you. Thank you. You've been listening to a little more conversation. Make sure you subscribe for more intimate conversations with music industry icons including Pete Tong, Fatboy Slim, Kolsch, The Black Madonna and Cassy.